Add To Cart is brought to you by
Were you forwarded this email? Sign up here to get the next edition.
In 1917, the Converse Chuck Taylor was a basketball shoe. Flat sole, bit of canvas, worn with a singlet and shorts on court. More than a hundred years later, it's still a cultural icon - and most of us can only dream of that brand longevity! Today I interview the man who helps maintain this brand desire in Australia.
I met today's guest, Dave Dullens, on stage at Pattern's Future of Social event, and I walked off thinking I hadn't asked half of what I wanted to. So this is the extended cut.
Dave is Head of Brand & Consumer at Conquest Sports, the 45-year Converse licensee that runs the brand across Australia and New Zealand, D2C, wholesale, marketing, warehousing, everything. He's spent 20 years keeping iconic footwear relevant, across Converse, Vans, Timberland and Dr Martens, and he might know more about streetwear footwear in this country than anyone.
This is a masterclass in keeping an iconic brand relevant across generations: the case for brand when everyone else is obsessed with conversion, what it takes to let go of brand control, and a dirty-sneaker video that broke all of Converse's rules and still did the job. All this… and he did the recording shoeless. Not very on brand.
Cheers,
Bushy
PS. If you are an Online Retailer this week, make sure you pop over to the Main Stage and say hi or see Rosa over at the Skills Stage!
EPISODE CHEAT SHEET
⏭️ SKIP TO THE GOOD BITS
What a licensee and distributor model actually is (04:36)
Localising a global brand for the Australian consumer (07:34)
Why iconic products outlive the use they were built for (13:46)
Reading the comments and DMs to spot the next trend (19:35)
Why Converse opened up to creators and UGC (24:08)
Funding brand messages the algorithm won't surface (32:04)
Measuring brand so finance takes it seriously (45:04)
The dirty-sneaker video that broke the rules and worked (47:23)
💬 QUOTE OF THE DAY
"If you're not planting trees,
you're not harvesting anything."
🧠 THE BIG LESSON
Brand isn't fluffy, but you have to prove it
Dave has the same argument every month: brand versus conversion numbers. Sound familiar? His response isn't to insist brand is special or that finance just doesn't get it. It's to put real numbers and outcomes on it, so the long game earns its budget alongside the quick wins. Here's how he keeps an iconic brand both relevant and defensible.
Rule 1: Let the consumer lead, then follow fast
Converse didn't decide it was a skate or music brand. Its consumers did, treating a basketball shoe as a blank canvas. Dave reads the comments, the DMs, even rivals' comments, to spot where the brand is being taken next.
"I read everything. The consumer decides what's going on."
Rule 2: Protect brand from the conversion machine
Meta's models push everything toward conversion, which keeps showing the same product to the same people. Dave carves out a separate budget for brand messages that need to find a new audience before they can ever convert.
"It doesn't understand the brand priorities. It understands conversion."
Rule 3: Measure brand like you measure sales
If you work in a business that loves measurement, measure brand. Baseline what consumers think, set brand-lift KPIs, activate, then measure again, using a tracker like Tracksuit so you can show the board it's working.
“If you're in a business that loves measurement, you need to measure brand.”
The evidence backs the long game.
Widely cited marketing-effectiveness research puts brand building at roughly 60% of long-term sales impact, with performance driving the short-term spike.
Dave's simple analogy is: you plant the trees and let them grow; then you harvest the fruit; and you can't harvest anything you never planted. The trick isn't winning the brand-versus-performance argument on vibes. It's turning brand into baselines, KPIs and uplift so all teams can see exactly how much fruit you're picking.
✏️ ECOMMERCE ACTION TIPS
Watch how customers actually use your product in comments and DMs. That's where Converse spotted the embroidery trend before any research did. (~22:34)
Carve out non-conversion budget for brand messages that need to find a new audience before they'll ever convert. (~33:48)
Recruit micro and nano-creators who are already fans. The pitch is easier, and the content is more authentic. (~26:16)
Brief creators on what they do well. Send back three of their own videos you loved rather than a rigid template. More of this please! (~50:39)
💾 TECH MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE
Tracksuit. The always-on brand-tracking platform Dave uses to baseline brand health and measure brand lift over time.
Pattern Creators. The UGC management platform from Conquest's digital partner Pattern, which Converse was the first brand in Australia to trial.
Meta. The core social and ad platform whose newer models push toward conversion, so Dave ring-fences brand budget separately.
TikTok. A key content channel driving traffic back to site, with TikTok Shop not yet live in Australia.
Reddit. The platform Dave flags as one to watch, resurgent through AI and demanding genuine, always-on community management.
🎧 OTHER EPS YOU MIGHT LIKE
Matt Herbert from Tracksuit: Running The Brand Marathon | EP309
Dave's whole "measure brand or lose the budget" argument runs on tracking. This is the founder of the tool he uses, on spreading brand investment across the year and proving its commercial impact to finance.
The Loyalty Trap: James Hurman on What Really Drives Ecommerce Growth | EP582
If you buy Dave's case for brand over pure conversion, this goes deeper: why building future demand and mass reach beats chasing efficiency, and why AI still can't judge creative like a human.
How to Create Social Video without Influencers with Creator Flow | EP364
Dave's take on briefing creators pairs perfectly with this one. A deep dive on UGC versus influencer content, how to brief it well, and why you need a loop back to performance data before you make anything.
💬 CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION
Loads to discuss here!
Do you ring-fence brand Meta budget or does everything go towards conversion in your business?
How much control would you hand a creator or do you need a hand on every frame?
Are Chuck Taylors legit for the office?
Jump in whether you're a regular or it's your first post.
Not a member yet? It's free to join. 700+ ecommerce operators talking shop every week.
